Episode Description

In this final episode of the RDH Magazine Podcast, Jackie Sanders reflects on her journey from clinical dental hygiene to dental media leadership and shares the lessons that have shaped her career. She talks about creating a hygiene department, working with an assistant, finding balance in clinical practice, and the challenge of giving hygienists enough time to provide the patient-centered care they value.

Related: Ready for a change? How to find career fulfillment in dental hygiene

Sanders and Andrew Johnston also discuss embracing change, finding new professional opportunities, the evolution of dental hygiene media, and the decision to wrap up the RDH Magazine Podcast. Sanders shares why she remains optimistic about the profession and offers a simple message for hygienists considering their own next chapter: believe in yourself, keep learning, and don't be afraid to grow.

More from RDH Podcast

---

 

From clinical hygiene to a broader role

Andrew Johnston: Welcome back, listeners, to another episode of the RDH Magazine Podcast. A different voice—this is Andrew Johnston, editor-in-chief of DentistryIQ.

We're doing a little bit of a role reversal on you as we get into this episode because, as you heard on the last couple of episodes, we are winding down the RDH Magazine Podcast. I thought it would be really important that we don't let Jackie Sanders out of here without grilling her one more time and trying to get all the information out of her that we can in the next 10 minutes.

So, Jackie, welcome to your show.

Jackie Sanders: Well, thank you, Andrew. So excited to be here. I've never sat on this other side of the microphone. I just had swung around to the other side of my desk.

Andrew Johnston: Isn't it? It's kind of weird, right? Just being in the interviewee's seat.

Jackie Sanders: Yeah, it's just different. I'm glad that my guests never felt nervous because I don't feel nervous talking to you at all.

Andrew Johnston: Oh, good. I think I want to go over a couple of different things. One, I think it's really important the audience knows who you are, but sometimes they don't actually know who you are. They don't know you as the person.

Maybe they look at you as the giant personality in dental hygiene. I'm not being serious often, but this is one of those times, Jackie, where I walk through RDH Under One Roof halls and I hear, “Oh, that's Jackie Sanders. Oh, that's Jackie Sanders.” I hear that kind of stuff all of the time.

And I think you should really be proud about what you've done with your career. I kind of want to explore that.

I also want to explore the RDH Magazine Podcast a little bit and talk about some of the things that you've enjoyed about it and this podcast medium in general. Then we'll just kind of wing it for the—

Jackie Sanders: Yeah, sounds good. Sounds good. All right.

Building a hygiene career around people

Andrew Johnston: So, Jackie Sanders, let's talk a little bit first about your professional career. Let's talk about when you started out as a hygienist. What drove you to the profession? What were the things that you loved clinically?

Jackie Sanders: Oh my goodness. Well, I've got a long dental story, but I was a late bloomer. I've been in dentistry all my life as an assistant and worked as a consultant and went back to hygiene school and graduated at 38.

I lived in Utah. I was hired by a father and son who had not had a hygienist before, so I was able to create our hygiene department with a dedicated assistant. Yes, assisted hygiene can work as long as the hygienist manages the workload.

But the favorite part of my job was working with children. I lived in Utah at the time, and there are a lot of children.

Andrew Johnston: They're known for that.

Jackie Sanders: Yeah, the fear is legit. But man, oh man, can you have fun with kids? So that probably was the balance to the hard patients.

When you go into a practice that hasn't had a hygienist before, you do find a lot of undiagnosed care. So in the beginning, I had a lot of patients that were difficult, a lot of perio. I had two amazing bosses that I was so proud to work for and with.

But those little children just balanced out those hard days. So that was the favorite thing.

People always ask me, “Do I miss clinical hygiene?” I don't miss the work as much as I miss the people. I treated people. I didn't treat mouths. I treated people.

And I actually had notes about people. So that's what I miss. And that's probably why I enjoy this role. That's why I enjoy this role is because I still work with people, and I tell everybody I'm only where I'm at because of the people I surround myself with.

Andrew Johnston: That absolutely tracks for you. I'm actually a little bit surprised. I don't know that I knew that you started working with pediatrics and working a lot of pediatrics.

I mean, that's how I started.

Jackie Sanders: It was just that it was Utah, so it was a lot of—

Andrew Johnston: That's true.

Jackie Sanders: So this is a general practice.

Making time for patient care

Andrew Johnston: I got you. Yeah, no. Actually, there's several messages there. I think that, one, the message about assisted hygiene, I think you're spot on there.

I think the people, especially in the forums, are kind of a little bit negative, a little bit down on assisted hygiene. I actually had an assistant for most of my career as well, and they enabled me to do exactly what you said about taking care of the person that was in the chair, to have a slower dialogue if needed with those people and be able to just get around, face them, and have conversations with them, as opposed to speaking at the back of their head or into their ear.

As we were just talking about this the other day, when I did my board exams and it's local anesthesia and you had the proctors right here in each ear and they're like, “I see, proceed.” And it's just like, oh. Patients react kind of a similar way. They don't love that.

And so I love that message about assisted hygiene. I also love the fact that, you know, look, there's gonna be stuff that we don't love about our job, but how do you find that balance? What do you find that's gonna offset that?

What are the hygienists the most frustrated about right now?

Jackie Sanders: I think what hygienists are the most frustrated with now is within our heart we are there to take care of the patient. And we know how many things we can—I won't call them things—how many different skill sets we have, how many different health conditions we can identify, how many different ways we can be making sure that our patients are healthier and getting the care they need, but we're not given the time to do that.

And it's almost like you need to find a practice where you can have a change of mindset. Because if we can communicate with the dentist and show that if we slow down, we can be more productive and make our patients happier and understand more of why they need the care they need, then we will be more successful, not only financially for the practice, but with our patients.

Our patients don't like to feel rushed through. I know some of them do. We hear, “Okay, can you get me out of here in 30 minutes?”

Well, no, I can't. I can treat you for 30 minutes, but then you're going to have to come back again and again.

But our patients, if they're feeling like they need to be rushed through, then we've kind of messed up on our job because we haven't taught them why they're there and what we're doing.

I think sometimes we as hygienists get so wrapped up in, “It's 8:20 and my 9:00 is already in the waiting room.” We hurry up to stay on time and we forget to educate.

So, you know, it's a catch-22.

Starting small when introducing change

Jackie Sanders: Even if I was talking to somebody the other day about introducing change into your practice, how do you do it? It's even if you just do one thing different for two weeks.

I'm going to start taking blood pressure. You've never done it before because you don't have time. Well, what if you started doing it on every other patient throughout the day?

Because I think as soon as you start seeing the appreciation or the difference you can make, then you're going to realize I should be doing this with every single patient.

But you have to start little and then make it a habit.

Andrew Johnston: Did you always have that skill set? Like, were you always able to identify how to change things, or did that first practice really give you the time to do that? Was it your time in corporate? How did you learn about changing like that?

What corporate dentistry taught her about change

Jackie Sanders: I think it's probably going to have to lean into my time in corporate. You know, I was in clinical hygiene for 15 years.

And looking at what hygienists do now compared to what I did when I was in clinical hygiene, I would have a very, very hard time going back into clinical. I didn't take digital X-rays. I did probe every single patient. We only did blood pressures on patients who were receiving anesthesia. So it's changed a lot.

But understanding change and the power of change probably came to me working in corporate because we know corporate is constantly changing. They're always looking at outcomes. So this hygienist in a corporate world had to learn how to embrace and go with change.

But then you also find out in corporate that change doesn't happen quickly. In a dental office, you could change: “Okay, we're going to start doing this on Monday morning,” and everybody's like, “Okay, we're going to do this Monday morning.”

In corporate, it's like, “Okay, we're going to lay out this strategy and this plan, and we're going to take it to six different meetings, and then everybody's got to sign off, and maybe in two months we'll have an answer for you.”

So I'm constantly challenged with impatience and wanting change right away because I enjoy change. I enjoy change a lot because I like to start new things and see them succeed.

Why the RDH Magazine Podcast is changing

Andrew Johnston: Yeah. Let's piggyback on that because you did start the RDH Magazine Podcast. It's been, gosh, is it three years now?

Jackie Sanders: It's been three years. Yeah.

Andrew Johnston: I think it's been three years. Tell me more about embracing that change, that role, having to be the voice of a podcast and what that kind of has felt like for you.

Jackie Sanders: It was really fun. As soon as I found out I didn't have to be on video and it was just my voice, it got even easier.

And I found that I'm not the only hygienist that feels that way. I would tell hygienists, “No, we don't have to. Let's show up with our hair and scrunchies. We're going to have on our sweats. We're just going to talk about hygiene and the things we love.”

And so the RDH Magazine Podcast became very lighthearted and fun and laughing and joking while being serious about the roles that we play. So it's gone by much faster than I realized. It was a lot of fun.

It filled a need at the time, but now I am hearing from hygienists there's other things that hygienists are needing. They're needing more content, they're needing more direction, they're leaning more into videos and reels than listening to podcasts.

So Endeavor, RDH, DIQ, DE have always been really, really good about listening to our audience and what our audience's needs are, and then finding ways to fulfill those needs.

And that's why we're wrapping up the RDH Magazine Podcast and leaning into ATOT, leaning into the other RDH podcast, which is A Tale of Two Hygienists with Jessica and David, and letting them carry that role while I focus on the other things that RDH needs at this time.

From podcasts to reels

Andrew Johnston: Yeah, and I would assume that the same lessons learned from when you started the podcast, you have some other lessons that are probably going to need to be learned to be on film. And I say film, it's not film anymore, but beyond digital recordings.

Be on, you know, I've never made a reel, I don't think, in my entire life. Like, that's not—it takes a special talent to be able to do that and to do that well. So I'm looking forward to watching you.

Jackie Sanders: I don't know that I do it well. I think, Jackie Sanders, what you see is what you get.

So what I have found is doing my reels in my backyard with my sunglasses on and just having fun. And if I have on makeup, great. If I don't, that's okay. If my hair's curled or if it's in a ponytail under a baseball cap, that's fine.

My message is going to remain the same. And I think, you know, I receive comments from people and they love that I'm a little goofy and off edge and not always polished and put together because I really am not.

I am real-life Jackie, which you saw pictures. I was at Niagara Falls this weekend hugging on a pink elephant and Stacy Deemer.

But, you know, reels are just supposed to be fun. They're short, quick, easy. My videographer is my husband. So if it's bad, he's not going to tell me. He'll just let me put it out there and then laugh at me.

So, you know, we'll see. No pressure, Andrew, when you do yours.

Andrew Johnston: Oh, no, it's not happening. We have some other things planned for DentistryIQ that has nothing to do with me being on any sort of social media platform.

Lessons learned throughout a career

Andrew Johnston: But I just can't let this interview end without maybe asking just a few more questions about lessons learned over a career.

Whether that's with the podcast or whether that's the change to RDH, which was a different jump from your previous corporate role, or something that you might have learned even in your clinical days—what is the most valuable thing that someone taught you or told you that you can impart to the audience?

Jackie Sanders: I think the most valuable lesson I have learned is to believe in yourself.

And I never saw myself going into a corporate role, but I was hired by a woman that said, “If you will teach me dentistry, I will teach you marketing.”

And so I believed in her. I trusted her. And I knew I knew dentistry. I knew that inside out, forward, backward, upside down. And she did. She taught me all about marketing.

I have had great bosses. My next boss, I will give a shout-out to Aaron Farr. He taught me how to network. He got me involved with all the associations. I met people who taught me.

And then, you know, I had worked so closely with RDH while I was at Sunstar that when Craig Dixon offered me this position, I was like, “I can't do this. I don't like to write, Craig. I'm not an editor.”

And he's like, “No, but you know the profession.”

And that was it. He said, “We'll teach you what you need to know, but you know the profession.”

So I would say, don't ever stop learning and believe in yourself.

Nothing can be as hard as hygiene school was. And we all survived. And we became better. We're stronger. We're knowledgeable. We are evidence-based. We are driven to be caretakers and take care of people, including ourselves.

And I don't think hygienists always look at taking care of themselves as much as we take care of our patients.

So if you want to grow, grow. If you want to do something different, do it. You can only fail for a little bit. And if you fail, you just turn around and go back and start over again.

But the failures are what makes you who you become.

Those who don't know me, I went through a divorce after 25 years and I became a totally different person at the age of 50. And I actually found Jackie again.

So there are opportunities to change when you are the most scared.

Related: Find the role that makes that big difference

Finding the next chapter

Andrew Johnston: I love it. I mean, and that's true. I found myself feeling very, very low at certain points in my career or my life or whatever. And those are the times when I still now look back on and be like, look at all that stuff that you learned during those hard times.

I mean, it's hard to have perspective in the moment, right? Because you're just feeling so beat up and so whatever. But you just look back and, like, you're always climbing these stairs. Everyone's always climbing the stairs, and you look how high you climbed it at different points in your life.

And so, Jackie, what is one thing that you are looking forward to most in the next chapters of life, professionally or personally?

Jackie Sanders: It doesn't really matter. The next chapters of life—it's funny you say that because I look at life as chapters.

The next chapters of life are watching Under One Roof grow. I'm not really sure. You know, my life and my future and my goals haven't been selected as much as they've been handed to me by a higher power. And I just pay attention and know when it's time to change.

And right now I am just having so much fun working with Endeavor and having them believe in me that I know the focus of the dental hygiene community and being able to drive the change and support the direction that we need to go to enhance our future.

So surround yourself with people who are like-minded and go for your goals. So I don't know where I'm headed, Andrew. I really don't.

Andrew Johnston: I know, and I love that, though. And I think that that's one of the reasons why you and I get along so well is because I'm very similar.

I do have goals and usually financial benchmarks or things like that, right? But as far as your next role, your next job, where you're going to live in five years, you just sometimes don't know any of that until things happen.

And then it's those instant decisions that you have to make sometimes that can change the trajectory.

Related: When hygienists feel stuck: Rethinking growth, change, and self-care in dental hygiene

An optimistic outlook for dental hygiene

Andrew Johnston: So the last question for you as we're winding this down is the outlook of the profession.

I feel like a lot of times people are kind of negative about it, and I think that they have a doom-and-gloom perspective of what's going to happen to dental hygiene. Are you sharing those thoughts, or are you a little bit more optimistic? Where are you at on that whole spectrum?

Jackie Sanders: Because I sit in the seat I sit in, I am very, very optimistic about our future.

There is a lot of doom and gloom out there. And I think those are unfortunately people who are afraid or people who aren't continuing to educate themselves.

There was a great comment, and I received a, of course I received a letter when I said this, but let's see if I can remember.

“If you're only cleaning teeth, you will be replaced by someone who only cleans teeth.”

Hygienists do not clean teeth. Hygienists take care of systemic health. They take care of periodontal health. They diagnose, they—

Andrew Johnston: We don't just scrape teeth.

Jackie Sanders: And I think if you're a person that just believes that's all that your job is, that you've limited yourself.

And you and I just had someone that we recently interviewed, what was her name? Jill Sirko. Is that right?

And she's not a hygienist, and she gets it. She is out there teaching the community about systemic health and oral health.

And I think the more that we, you and I, bring these individuals in front of our audience, I believe our audience, the dental professionals, will become more optimistic because they will see that we as hygienists and dentists and assistants and office managers are not the only ones that are promoting—

We now have a huge audience out there that gets it, and they're helping us promote it.

So those are kind of the focuses you and I have as we step away from a podcast. We need to be finding these people to put in front of our audience.

So am I negative? Heck no, that's not how I roll. I have a lot of hope for this profession, and that's why I will remain in this role.

A final message to the RDH audience

Andrew Johnston: Jackie Sanders, you are the best. And this is why I like you. I need that optimism. I need the fun. I need all of that.

As this is the last episode, I want to turn the time back over to you one more time. And, you know, one last message to the audience from this podcast.

You're not going away. You found lots of other places. But for this podcast and this audience specifically, what do you want to share?

Jackie Sanders: With this audience, I want to thank everyone who has spent time with me every week.

I want to thank all of my guests who hung out with me, several of you multiple times. We always had fun, and we always brought lightheartedness and positivity and education to our audience.

So don't go away. Just hop on over to A Tale of Two Hygienists. Watch for me on my goofy reels on social media.

And if you have ideas for content, or if someone who is spreading our systemic health message that Andrew or I need to talk to, send them our way because we are here to support our profession and take it to the heights it needs to go.

Andrew Johnston: I love it. Jackie, thank you for doing this podcast for all the years. It's been very important. It's helped so many people, and I'm looking forward to your next adventures.

Jackie Sanders: Here we go. Everybody take care. Hope to see you soon. Bye-bye.